Support Us
Please support our campaign for fairness for student pilots by signing up below.
New! Please download this letter to send to your MP.
You can find the name and address of your MP here.
Before you sign up below, a word from BALPA, the Pilots and Flight Engineers trade union and professional association representing members in UK airlines:
In the UK, virtually all the airlines have abrogated their responsibilities towards training, expecting the prospective pilots to pay for all their training, with self sponsored type ratings becoming the norm. Sign up to a training course and you are unlikely to get much change from £80,000.00, and there is only very limited sponsorship available, so it seems hard to imagine how prospective pilots are going to fund their training, especially given the lowering of terms and conditions throughout the industry. It has also been suggested that the quality of the candidates is not always of the calibre required, and therefore some form of selection on ability would be desirable, rather than on the ability to pay. It is difficult to imagine in the fiercely competitive world of Flight Training that prospective candidates with the requisite amount of money in their hands, are going to be turned away from a school with places to fill. It could indeed be argued that selection will take place, with candidates not up to the task, failing to achieve the required standard being self selecting based on individual wealth.
It is seen as imperative that the Government takes this issue on board, providing professional flying training with the same educational benefits as provided to other professions, such as medical/engineer/surveyor/accountant /legal. This may require that the profession follows the tertiary education route, in line with other professional selection, but in line with other professional selection the students should then be eligible for loans, tax breaks, tax relief, etc.
BALPA has brought these issues to the attention of governments but has yet to see the issue being taken seriously.
There are a number of European Countries that offer tax relief on flight training, so why not the UK? Now that we are part of Europe we should be applying the same standards to ensure UK students and UK Flight Training Organisations are not disadvantaged.
Thomas Johnson on 28 May 2009 at 5:52 pm #
Support the campaign 120%, Pilots should defiantly get support, if every other student can get support, why cant they??
Liza Botti on 28 May 2009 at 6:10 pm #
I would like to add my support to the above statement. The governement should provide the same support to trainee pilots as other students.
Lucy Botti on 28 May 2009 at 6:19 pm #
I feel that the government should help trainee pilots.
Jamie Walker on 28 May 2009 at 6:37 pm #
Well done on completing your training Oliver. I attempted the training four years ago and on completion of my PPL had to call it a day due to lack of finance. Being in my mid 20s at the time the possibility of flying professionally was just not attainable due to the costs of training, despite the offer of a £40k loan from HSBC (probably not enough anyway) with crippling repayments after completion of training and no guarantees of a job straight away. This is a great isdea and I offer my full support. I will watch with interest – good luck!
Craig Baker on 29 May 2009 at 8:57 am #
I fully support this campaign. Flight training should provide professional education not debt!
Carolyn Evans on 29 May 2009 at 9:34 am #
Why should every other student receive government supported training when seeking to follow their chosen profession except pilots. Is it that the government perceives the profession as ’sexy’ and somehow different to a real job? If so they need a wake up call, it is a very real very hard job, long hours, shift work but with good rewards. All we ask for is a fair playing field why should UK pilots start their career life off with such an enormous burden of interest bearing debt? Without UK pilots we will not have a UK industry and as for training establishments, with tax benefits and grants available overseas what attraction is there for pilots to train in the UK.
Dave Brooks on 29 May 2009 at 9:51 am #
I think the airlines should sponsor pilot training and be able to claim back from the government. In this way only the best would be accepted for training. It is very worrying that there are pilots out there who are not of the best calibre and are only flying because they had the money to pay for training.
Cath Hooper on 29 May 2009 at 10:43 am #
I fully suppport this campaign, it doesn’t seem fair to have one rule for one student and another rule for another form of student. Lets have that level playing field please!
Sarah Barry on 29 May 2009 at 11:48 am #
I think there is a problem of perception of pilots in the UK. Many people think pilots only come from wealthy backgrounds, or that their training is paid for by the airlines. This is so not the case! Although every airline pilot has passed the required training and exams, there has often been a long and arduous route to do this. Many potential pilots spend years trying to save up to pay for their training (and many give up) and many potential pilots take out huge loans in order to pay for their training. I was amazed when I was undertaking my training that there was absolutely no money available from the government for a course that was likely to give me a good career at the end of it (and mean that the government would recoup any money spent on me by my paying of higher taxes) No student loans, no tax breaks, no Income Support, no Unemployment Benefit, no Housing Benefit. Yet if I had wanted some help from the government, perhaps I should have chosen something really useful like a degree in Citizenship Studies or a BA in Knitting? (Both supported by government funding).
Even though I was training for a career, I had to pay everything myself with not even the most basic help from the government. At the end of training there is the stress not only of paying back your loans, but also of trying to find that first job. Even when you get your first job, the wages are generally not that high and you work all hours, and it still takes years to pay back the money for your training. Whilst working as a new airline pilot you are therefore under additional pressure, trying to pay back your loans.
The government seems keen to encourage more people to go to University, yet refuses to support those who wish to do a vocational qualification.
I fully support FairPlane’s aims, and think that as a start, the government should look at offering Career Development Loans for the amount of the course, grants/student loans towards living expenses and tax breaks for the training.
Dusty Miller on 29 May 2009 at 11:49 am #
Pay as you go is not necessary getting the best? Is the present system doing that?
Mark Savill on 29 May 2009 at 12:18 pm #
I have seen first hand just how much this whole family have had to sacrifice to get this pilots licence through. I applaud their single minded determination in achieving their goal – but the point is that they should not have had to sacrifice so much. Any student should be entitled to the same treatment as any other student or trainee. Shame on the government for this woeful treatment.
Steve Green on 29 May 2009 at 12:50 pm #
An excellent move to highlight this totally unfair discrimination against tertiary education for potential airline pilots.
Adam Chudley on 29 May 2009 at 12:50 pm #
I completely support this campaign as this is the career I continually wish to pursue however this system is the single reason I cannot. Forcing this kind of financial burden is not fair to those of us that simply cant afford it.
Edward Jones on 29 May 2009 at 12:59 pm #
This is an abrogation of Human Rights by the Government towards pilots.
Training is critical and trainees should be supported on an inclusive basis with other professions.
The current situation is patently unfair.
Donna Fleming on 29 May 2009 at 1:17 pm #
A very worthy cause
Piet Reynolds on 29 May 2009 at 2:41 pm #
I fully support the aims of this campaign!!
Peter Desforges on 29 May 2009 at 2:50 pm #
Any responsible Government must provide professional flying training and financial loans in line with the other professions. These young people, regardless of background are the future of this country. We should invest in them recognising the huge responsibiliy they carryfor the lives of people. Politicians should wake up to the fact they reuire help – not hand outs
Tom Cockhill on 29 May 2009 at 3:15 pm #
As an ex-student I know how tough it can be! They can count on my support.
Jeffrey Dale on 29 May 2009 at 5:03 pm #
I am pleased to add my weight to this campaign.
Anthony Smith on 30 May 2009 at 11:58 am #
100% behind this cause, came throught the pilot training system myself last year and was one of the lucky ones to get a job on completion. I therefore know what it’s like for families to take the huge gamble on training costs and I know that this is not the kind of job where anything but the most worthy candidate will do.
It is simply unacceptable that those who lack the skills but can afford to pay end up responsible for the safety of hundreds of passengers and as stated we certainly wouldn’t accept it from our Doctors/Surgeons.
It’s high time pilots had a level playing field where career training is concerned.
Sue & Nigel Hendry on 30 May 2009 at 12:02 pm #
All students should have help with grants – or is being a pilot an elitist occupation??
Captain Peter Boulding on 01 Jun 2009 at 10:27 am #
High time something was done to rectify this situation!
Stefano Felici on 01 Jun 2009 at 11:33 am #
Hi!
I’m italian and i’m 21 just happened!!
I’m working in a IT Technology industries as Flight Procedure Designer for 2 years…I’m saving a lot of money to begin my training…
Good LooK
Graham on 01 Jun 2009 at 11:59 am #
Fully supporting this website. My partner is just about to start her surgical training.
It actually costs £250,000 to train a medical student, of course, the governement pays for it.
And they accuse medicine of being elitest…
Keith Jones on 01 Jun 2009 at 12:20 pm #
This is a case of discrimination in education, It is my wish to student pilots treated as students. I find it totaly unfair when I see students from other EU states being refunded the VAT when they train in the UK and yet a student from the UK pays the VAT in full.
Tudor Owen on 01 Jun 2009 at 2:16 pm #
I’ve always thought the inequality is very unfair, and am pleased to support this initiative.
It is completely unacceptable that someone should be prevented from entering the profession because he/she doesn’t have the funds to obtain the necessary qualifications.
Some post-qualification debt is inevitable these days, unfortunately, but there should be equality.
Sam on 01 Jun 2009 at 2:20 pm #
Training to be a commercial pilot is hard enough without the hideous debt involved. If the UK government does not take action then it will ultimately lose out.
student pilot on 01 Jun 2009 at 2:25 pm #
It is brilliant that someone has finally taken up this challenge that will probably meet a lot of resistance, however I am sure a lot of people agree that students are students no matter what they are studying and if some get funding and others don’t, how is that fair?
All the best and I really hope you get far!
Steve Sivell on 01 Jun 2009 at 2:34 pm #
Having just returned back from annual leave, this is obviously still fresh in my mind.
Why should pilots only come from wealthy backgrounds and I believe everybody should receive equal rights in terms of both opportunities and funding, especially when the role of a pilot is such an important one.
I’m amazed to hear that there is absolutely no money available from the government for this type of course / training to give somebody a good career at the end of it.
You have my full support in your campaign.
Good Luck!
Carole Burgess on 01 Jun 2009 at 4:06 pm #
only too pleased to support this campaign
Lloyd Watson on 01 Jun 2009 at 4:23 pm #
Of course the government should allow this training to receive the benefit of loans, indeed certain countries in the Middle East fund pilot training as higher education.
But then succesive governements are in power mostly for their benfit and rarely for ours.
WALLY EPTON on 01 Jun 2009 at 6:18 pm #
In supporting this initiative I would add that regrettably the cost of qualifying as a pilot goes beyond just the cost of initial commercial licence training. Added to this initial cost is very often the cost of obtaining a suitable aircraft type rating to become employed. Not all airlines or GA employers provide type training, and very often the debt-laden newly-qualified pilot is required to spend more money to obtain a type rating. Airlines and aircraft owners should accept that part of the cost of operating aircraft is the cost of essential training to get the qualified professional pilot into the cockpit.
DAVID MARTIN on 01 Jun 2009 at 6:26 pm #
Only by having equality in funding can we realistically carry out in depth selection reducing the number of those who fail to complete the trainig and raise the standards of those who suceed.
Tania Edwards on 01 Jun 2009 at 6:52 pm #
I would like to add my support to the above statement. The governement should provide the same support to trainee pilots as other students.
Mike Butterworth on 01 Jun 2009 at 8:23 pm #
I have long been involved (through GAPAN) with pilot selection for flying scholarships.One of the most frequent complaints from aspiring pilots is the terrifying cost of training, and the stress of undertaking training with no guarantee of a job on completion.
As a former BA trainer,I suspect that while young people continue to find a way to fund themselves, no operator feels the need to sponsor them.
Robin & Lesley Chard on 02 Jun 2009 at 9:30 am #
We have put 2 children through university with the benefit of grant’s and this was difficult enough. Why, if you wish to become a piliot is there no funding? surley all professional training should be the same. We fully support this campaign.
Benjamin David Brooks on 02 Jun 2009 at 11:14 am #
I am in complete agreement with this campaign, about the only way to get “free” or “subsidised” training these days is to join the armed forces.
as the Government pays some of the cost of almost every other professional’s training it should at least do the same for pilots.
Barbara Lovelass on 02 Jun 2009 at 11:35 am #
Perhaps MP’s should be made to pay back their fraudulantly gained ‘pocket money’ into worthy causes such as this?
Tony Banfield on 02 Jun 2009 at 8:30 pm #
In the latter part of my flying career I was closely involved with the training of students to instrument rating standard and was, therefore, acutely aware of the costs and sacrifices involved. It is quite illogical that student airline pilots should be treated any differently to any other profession. It is vital, for the sake of the industry and the safety of all airline passengers, that access to the profession should be by merit and not parents’ ability or sacrificial willingness to pay. We are already beginning to see a disturbing trend of accidents attributable to skill failures. It must serve as a warning to our legislators.
Rick Peacock-Edwards on 03 Jun 2009 at 6:29 am #
I fully support this initiative. the government’s attitude, as we all know, is disgraceful
Tim Bennett on 03 Jun 2009 at 2:13 pm #
Here is an opportunity to for our government to do something that benefits others (rather than themselves!) It is ridiculous that there is such a lack of support for trainee pilots.
Colin Cooke-Priest on 03 Jun 2009 at 5:35 pm #
The Government’s attitude to flying training is entirely illogical. I support any effort to change this, since without change this country will, in a few years, be totally unable to meet the commercial pilot requirement – and this is without even entering the debate on the social and moral implications.
Brett Westcott on 03 Jun 2009 at 10:44 pm #
A surgeon makes a mistake and accidentally kills a patient.
A 747 pilot makes a mistake and kills 400 people.
Janet Obern on 04 Jun 2009 at 8:12 am #
This situation is a disgrace, good luck trying to get it changed, perhaps the government can look at the benefits cheats to finance a change????????
Andrew Roddick on 04 Jun 2009 at 8:38 am #
Im 18 and at the point where many of my friends are off to university….ALL of them gaining student finance. A STUDENT pilot deserves the same recognition and privileges.
Michael Tanney on 04 Jun 2009 at 12:59 pm #
Think of the huge expense incurred by the government in training medical professionals, not only initial degrees but in their specialist exams. There is no way that aviation training would be of any greater expense. Sadly, I think the reality is that that the airline industry uses the fact that many parents can’t afford to finance their children in becoming a pilot as a means of restricting entry into the profession. Getting the “right sort”, and ultimately keeping the number of pilots down. If the government was able to finance this, the UK would become flooded with pilots, after all, who at 18 years of age would not want to be a pilot ? This would cause the supply to far outreach the demand and wages to drop, even more.
josephine horler on 04 Jun 2009 at 12:59 pm #
i fully support this initative, we are watching our 2o year old grandson working all hours to pay for flying lessons taken when money, time,and conditions allow. I heard this on somerset sound ,I hope many people did and will call on the government to act, and provide grants for student pilots. God bless your efforts . 04 june 2009
Neema Soni on 04 Jun 2009 at 5:14 pm #
I am in the same position as Oliver. I know exactly how difficult it is and on top of that the job situation is extremely tough at the moment. It would be good to know that future generations would not have to go through these difficulties.
Phil Boddy on 04 Jun 2009 at 5:52 pm #
Very surprised to learn that student pilots aren’t classed the same as any other students with regard to grants whilst training. Our life is often most certainly in their hands and their training should most definitely be govt. funded . I fully support this campaign and trust it will prove successful in changing the unfairness that currently exists
Phil Mathews on 06 Jun 2009 at 11:12 am #
Government attitude to aviation is pretty poor at the best of times. Hopefully this initiative can bring some change.
Audrey Rice on 06 Jun 2009 at 6:09 pm #
Airline pilots are as important as surgeons especially in this age of travel.
I travel by air quite a bit and am not a confident passenger, and for me it is essential to believe that the pilot has had all the training and is top of his profession.
Therefore his training should have the same priorities as the surgeon…. who knows how many potential pilots have been lost because of the lack of funds. Having had 3 sons we certainly could not have afforded to pay for their training, fortunately they each gained an apprenticeship! Why not the same for pilots?
Richard Crosby on 07 Jun 2009 at 10:53 am #
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments above.
Tax breaks and loans should be available to anyone wanting to either start out, or advance in any profession.
The disadvantage that the UK government puts upon the aviation world is unfair to say the least especially as the training for the commercial pilot is horrendously expensive to start with.
I know that I could not afford to help any of my children past their PPL and I know how expensive that is!
Joe Edwards on 07 Jun 2009 at 10:55 am #
Got my support. Keep at it. It is a democracy after all !……..
Richard King on 07 Jun 2009 at 4:36 pm #
Time for change. Whatever happened to the level playing field?
Cheryl Sinfield on 07 Jun 2009 at 11:54 pm #
Yes, this gets my support. Certainly time for a change.
William Cooper on 08 Jun 2009 at 3:18 pm #
the price of flying is too high….if i want to take on flying as a career my only option is to join the RAF
Hilary Copson on 09 Jun 2009 at 10:03 am #
This is a brilliant cause and I completely agree with the comments above. This gets my wholehearted support.
Chris Jellard on 10 Jun 2009 at 11:07 am #
I agree with the comments that the best pilots do not come from an exclusively wealthy background.
Given the profits these airlines make, excepting BA of course, I think the pressure should be on them to sponsor the number of pilots they need.
Obviously it’s a shame that the wealthy folk are happy to spend the money and keep the pilot pool topped up which means that the airlines can get away with it.
I know from personal experience how tough the training is, hats off to any one who gets through.
Rob Desbois on 10 Jun 2009 at 10:13 pm #
It does seem extremely unfair that people in full-time training in this country get financial support and benefits from the government unless they’re training for piloting. The government needs to support those who contribute to the country’s economy so I’m behind this all the way!
–rob
June Bright on 11 Jun 2009 at 1:03 pm #
My son is 15 yrs old and has wanted to be a pilot from a very early age. Having just embarked on his first flying lessons, I was astonished at how expensive it is and how there is no loan or grant system whatsoever available for him to train. He doesn’t want to join the RAF so if he wants to have a career in flying we have no option than to try and get the money together ourselves.
Time for a government supported apprenticeship scheme perhaps? They seem to have them for everything else ………..
Adam Bright on 11 Jun 2009 at 6:03 pm #
My Whole family support this because i am now 15 and training to be a pilot.
I am on my way to the grades but am worried about going from solo flyer to Proffessional Pilot due to the costs up to £80,000. I cannot explain how much of a good idea this is.
We will support you all the way.
Carol Kilham on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:10 am #
I fully support this, absolutely unbelievable in this day & age that trainee pilots get no assistance with funding …..most people are likely to hop on a plane for a holiday than jump in their cars and drive up/down the motorways ……definately TIME FOR A CHANGE !!!
Justin Ramchurn on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:26 am #
Great idea, I think it is high time student Pilots were given recognition and supported with the cost of training!
Neal Redshaw on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:35 am #
I fully support this campaign, hats off to those who have completed and currently completing their training. Hopefully things will change in the NEAR furture!!
Daniel Gwizdek on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:38 am #
Hard times these days, so much support is needed to prepare for the future of aviation!
Rekha Jogia on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:40 am #
I wholeheartedly agree with this petition. Even though I am not a pilot, as a student, I know how crucial accessible funding is. Refusing student loans to pilots is elitist and outright discriminatory. Do the airlines think a fat bank balance will help save 200 lives if the plane is about to crash? There are enough people who don’t see £80000 in their whole lives. The training is ridiculously expensive as it is. I understand the need to cover fuel costs, etc, but to deny student loans and absolutely no sort of funding makes no sense, when European countries can find the resources to do so. Pilots in training are students. Treat them like it.
Mark Skidmore on 13 Jun 2009 at 11:01 am #
I completed my flight training Way back in 1993. It cost me in the region of £75k. Thanks to the ‘big bang’ of the late eighties – after which I was able to sell my apartment for a good profit – and some very understanding parents who very kindly loaned me 7.5k, I managed to complete my studies. It was though, but now that I am flying the A340 for Virgin Atlantic, I can look back with glee and say that I did it despite all the odds being stacked against me.
Lorraine Mountford on 13 Jun 2009 at 2:10 pm #
Funding should come from government., not out of the pilot’s pocket.
Tim MacKay on 13 Jun 2009 at 4:05 pm #
Completely agree, 100% support behind this one.
Lee McAllen on 13 Jun 2009 at 7:11 pm #
Got my support.
Certainly time for a change.
Charise Boal on 13 Jun 2009 at 8:04 pm #
100% agree with this campaign!
Derek Martin on 13 Jun 2009 at 10:17 pm #
Well done guys for organising a support campaign, I wholeheartedly agree and support this cause (being in the same boat myself).
Jeanette Redshaw on 13 Jun 2009 at 11:27 pm #
Entrance exams in to professional flying schools are of a very high standard.
The student who is successful and completes the pilot training should be recognized for their ability. Government should provide assistance with the astronomical cost for the student pilot as they do for other professional training.
Not everyone wants to join the RAF
David Bryans on 14 Jun 2009 at 1:49 am #
The government should give the same support to aviation students as other students
George Sanabili on 14 Jun 2009 at 3:25 am #
It’s not fair and I’lll support it
Adele Shepherd on 14 Jun 2009 at 10:35 pm #
The governement should provide the same support to trainee pilots as other students.
Captain Steve freeman on 15 Jun 2009 at 2:36 pm #
A great idea to gain support for this very specialized industry. The cost of flying is prohibitive for many and realising your dream can be out of reach for some. Government backing for students, like that given to candidates in other professions is essential. Only those with financial support to start with will get to where they want to be. I see many talented individuals loose out on a great career because they just do not have the funds to get going. The industry looses out on this talent as well and we all need to feel safe with the best calibre of person in the cockpit. I talk with people on a daily basis who cannot gain such support and their enthusiasm outweighs those in so many other fields.
We at Future Airline Pilot are 100% behind a venture such as this and are very keen for it to succeed. Lets get more comments here to show how much drive we all have in this very professional field!!! You will find a link on our site to show our support.
Good luck.
Simon Hands on 15 Jun 2009 at 8:07 pm #
From someone who chose not to persue their natural career following a degree…
Education and training should be open to all, no matter what the subject is.
Financial support should be available on a means tested basis. Loans should be available at standard student rates, not higher percentages offered by financial institutions.
And, of course, upon completion of the training and securing a job, the loan should be repaid.
Why should have equality for students of all disciplines.
Pilots in training, you have my support!
Aled Griffiths on 16 Jun 2009 at 11:50 am #
A great idea
you have my full backing
Aakarshan Kathuria on 16 Jun 2009 at 10:17 pm #
This is so true. The fees for pilot training is ridiculous. Even once we get our P.P.L, we have to pay such high amounts to build our hours if we do it from a flight training school. Some light should certainly be shed onto this matter.
Lewis Peters on 17 Jun 2009 at 3:29 pm #
Nearly every person I have spoken to is finding it enormously difficult to find funding.. issues of unsecured loans, equity, personal guarantors.. its not flexible enough for those candidates that have been accepted at an FTO with good grades.
Tom Mollart on 17 Jun 2009 at 4:27 pm #
Great idea, lets hope something is done
Allan Dawson on 18 Jun 2009 at 12:16 am #
This is long overdue, I support this completely.
Mikhail Malik-Evans on 18 Jun 2009 at 1:17 am #
You’ve of course got my support! Hope the future students dont have to go through what we did!
debbie williams on 24 Jun 2009 at 10:56 am #
You have my support, Hope you get somewhere with it
Charles Hampshire on 25 Jun 2009 at 10:40 pm #
Trainee pilots deserve student status and the same support that comes with this! Well done you have my full support!
nicola rowswell on 27 Jun 2009 at 2:19 pm #
Great cause! Lets hope the powers that be recognise the inaqualities and act on them.
Nicky Tyman on 27 Jun 2009 at 5:30 pm #
Well done for bringing this to everyone’s attention. And Good Luck. Nicky
Annie Magenis on 29 Jun 2009 at 10:07 am #
I’m training to be a commercial pilot at the moment and the most stress people seem to encounter is thinking about how they’re going to pay back the huge loan! This website, and others like it, are a great way to make the cause public!
Dan Roberts on 29 Jun 2009 at 5:57 pm #
Excellent idea. Hope this gets the attention is deserves.
Sam Sherburn on 30 Jun 2009 at 8:04 pm #
As a wannabee, I can only hope that any government move to help finance the training is introduced before I get near my ATPL. Airline Pilots are highly intelligent and adaptable individuals with a clear passion for what they do and take this financial pain and suffering with little argument. I am sure that we all appreciate how Air Travel has made our lives easier so why are some of it’s most important employees being let down like this. The ATPL is equivalent if not exceeding a degree qualification in what it allows so the government should allow all students financial support. I wish all the best to those with this ambition and hope that the monetary pain and suffering will cease in the immediate future.
Yours,
Sam Sherburn
Pilot Wannabee
kathy robins on 02 Jul 2009 at 11:24 am #
I fully support this campaign for all the aspiring pilots and their families. The government should support education and training across the board. We hear so much bad press about young people, let’s applaud and support those that have the drive to succeed against the odds. Change is needed.
chris price on 03 Jul 2009 at 8:16 am #
Maybe some of the extortionate air passenger duty charges levied by our “beloved” government could be used for this type of worthy funding, rather than the people in power dressing it up as a eco friendly tax, which serves simply to bump up the Treasury coffers!
Ken Crawley on 06 Jul 2009 at 1:53 pm #
I fully support the campaign
Martyn Hobbs on 13 Jul 2009 at 12:01 pm #
I’m behind the cause for all the reasons stated above!
Ryan Turner on 13 Jul 2009 at 11:54 pm #
Totally agree with everything here!
Clare Makin on 16 Jul 2009 at 9:54 am #
You have my support, and good luck with the campaign.
Mrs S Union on 16 Jul 2009 at 10:02 am #
This is discrimination by the UK government. It’s definitely time for a change.
Ally Broughton on 11 Aug 2009 at 10:04 pm #
It is a shame that some students may be deterred from pursuing their chosen career in aviation purely because they can’t afford the training expenses.
Not all parents are going to be in a position to financially support their son or daughter for their pilot training and therefore changes should be made by the Government to improve the system.
Good luck with the campaign.
Alan Desforges on 12 Aug 2009 at 6:03 pm #
It really is time that these hard working students were treated the same way as other students.
Nathalia Desforges on 18 Aug 2009 at 3:27 pm #
Because of this i cannot do my own pilot training, because of the goverment refusing to help i have to wait untill i can get the money by my own means… How is this fair?
You have my full support
Big Tone on 02 Sep 2009 at 1:58 pm #
So much for John Majors classless society and labour looking after the young, old and less well off. Why is it that equality only exists in death?
Helen Krasner on 03 Sep 2009 at 3:44 pm #
As a commercial helicopter pilot and instructor who paid for all my training myself, I fully support this campaign. I could afford it, just; many can’t. And why should they have to? This is a campaign for fair treatment, no more and no less.
Sarah Langdon on 05 Sep 2009 at 11:25 am #
Every one needs the support and to be treated as equally as all other students.
Pardon Dzumbunu on 07 Sep 2009 at 5:31 pm #
Just like an other highly disciplined profesion we need support with training .
Rowland Hibbard on 10 Sep 2009 at 3:38 pm #
I fully support Oliver and his family and would be very pleased if this action was able to get funding not only for pilots but also for other occupations which require expensive
training ,which currently is not the case. Good luck to you all.
Mr John Rumble on 12 Sep 2009 at 9:28 pm #
I fully support this initiative. the government’s attitude, as we all know, is disgraceful fairness to all students
Dominic Verdon on 20 Sep 2009 at 4:35 pm #
No doubt there are a lot of potentially very able pilots out there who simply cannot realise their dream because they do not have the money. This is absolutely unfair.
Unfortunately it’s too late for myself and others but hopefully this can be changed and trainee pilots will receive more financial support in future.
Claire Pike on 01 Oct 2009 at 7:27 pm #
These young people meed support which they should be getting from tghe government.
Bernard Pike on 01 Oct 2009 at 7:29 pm #
Support this campaign
michelle jackson-mogford on 02 Oct 2009 at 1:33 pm #
I thought there wasn’t meant to be elitism anymore and that all students were equal, evidently this is not true when it comes to pilots and I hope this campaign pushes ahead and shames the government into acting properly and supporting our BRITISH pilots!!!
Simon Cook on 15 Oct 2009 at 4:38 pm #
It’s time for the government to listen to the voice of reason.
Diane Spencer on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:03 pm #
We totally agree with what you are trying to do. It is high time the government treated student pilots the same as any other student and provide grants to help them acheive their goals.
Jeremy Diack on 20 Oct 2009 at 9:06 am #
There is a level of hypocrisy by UK Government here that is both opportunistic and self-defeating.
It is inequitable that student pilots should be forced to conform to the same entry requirements as those commencing alternative forms of vocational training and yet at the same time fail to be recognised as bona fide students when it comes to funding assistance. VAT must be removed and proper student funding assistance provided if the UK flight training industry is to continue to be able to compete in such a hard fought market place.
While European flight training is undergoing its largest upheaval for 50 years, in a bid to provide a level playing field across all Member States, student pilots training in the UK continue to be penalised by an attitude that is so out of place in modern society as to beggar belief. Access to the flightdeck should be judged on ability alone, not ability to pay.
David Lewis on 20 Oct 2009 at 4:25 pm #
Interesting to ponder how many current senior jet captains would be in their current positions, had they had to overcome the same financial hurdles before and during training that today’s aspirants face. I would suggest a significant number would not now be flying; they would not have started.
Good luck with the campaign, and thank you for your efforts.
Robert Hyams on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:34 am #
Financial loans are necessary this day to secure professional training. I believe they should be offered as if it were a university course
Robert Taylor Hall on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:36 am #
Hello
Support the fariplane campaign
Regards
Robert
colin jackson on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:39 am #
student pilots are our future
Kelly Leslie on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:42 am #
Full Support!!
Mark Guiry on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:44 am #
Full Support!!
Chris Gallagher on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:47 am #
I support the campaign
Stuart Conley on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:49 am #
I fully support this campaign, 100%
Leslie Foot on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:52 am #
Full support!!! 110%!!!!
Peter Chilvers on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:59 am #
support this
Mrs Wendy Gardner on 31 Oct 2009 at 12:22 pm #
I support the campaign.
mark on 31 Oct 2009 at 12:58 pm #
i support this
Graham Spooner on 31 Oct 2009 at 1:01 pm #
100% support for this.
stephen rutterford on 31 Oct 2009 at 1:04 pm #
I surport this
trina cripps on 31 Oct 2009 at 1:10 pm #
i fully support the campaign to help students
Gareth Loughran on 31 Oct 2009 at 1:36 pm #
A great campaign which has been a long time coming, aviation as a career should be given the same consideration as all the others the government support.
ADRIAN BROWN on 31 Oct 2009 at 1:42 pm #
I am in full support of balloting the government to support costs of airline pilot training.
Josh Lane on 31 Oct 2009 at 2:03 pm #
as a young potential pilot i welcome the oppurtunity to recieve some financial aid of any kind. The Commercial pilot career should not be a priveledge for the wealthy and i feel that many people that are commited and have a passion for flying are squandered because of the financial state of this particular career.
scott bourke on 31 Oct 2009 at 2:25 pm #
I support this.
chris m on 31 Oct 2009 at 2:39 pm #
Studying vocational skills should be made available on a level playing field. Trainee pilots are NOT financially strong.
David Walrond on 31 Oct 2009 at 2:53 pm #
My son will not be able to afford to follow his dream without further support form studant grants , etc
Nevelle Marchent on 31 Oct 2009 at 2:58 pm #
I agree and support
Andrew Perkins on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:12 pm #
I agree and support
Matt Watts on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:17 pm #
Surely this government claims that it supports everyone in attaining their goals despite their financial background? The current situation seems to be a bit of a sham.
Thomas Ward on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:21 pm #
Support everyone with an aspiration to fly as any other student would be supported!
Matthew Slator on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:23 pm #
Signing in support of Fairplane
Louise Fountain on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:43 pm #
This should be supported – we need to maintain all our industries – do not unfairly penalise student pilots nor unfairly discriminate against UK students in comparison to other EU students.
Toby Fountain on 31 Oct 2009 at 3:45 pm #
If our government doesn’t support British pilots then pilots of other nationalities will take these jobs. Support our future.
Sebastian Pooley on 31 Oct 2009 at 4:16 pm #
I agree and support.
Mimbar Ali on 31 Oct 2009 at 4:20 pm #
This is a great Idea and it would halve helped me a lot when I went through my training!
marie Barlow on 31 Oct 2009 at 4:41 pm #
I support this campaign
Cesare Ghermandi on 31 Oct 2009 at 5:13 pm #
A pilot students is effectively a student. Why not recognizing them the same priviledges?
Dipeet Mehta on 31 Oct 2009 at 8:06 pm #
Thank God I Know This Website For The Support. I Am Here For Student Pilot Support And I Am A Student Pilot Myself. Not For Me But For Others I Believe The Government Should Recognise That Airline Pilot Is The HARDEST RISK A Student Can Ever Take In His Life.. £100,000 BUT AFTER ALL DO YOU GET THE JOB GIVEN.. NO.. The Training Is The Best With TREES FULL OF MONEY TO PUT IN £80,000 Your Looking At. NOT CALL Can Afford It And Yet There Are So Many People Who Have SUCH AN AMBITION TO Become An Airline Pilot But Without The Access Of Not Having A Student Loan Is Such An Emotion Full Of Feeling That Its Once In Life.. Its ONCES In Life Time Experience That One Has.. Student Pilots Should Be GIVEN THE LOAN.. 80,000 IS NOT In Any’s Pocket There Should Be SOme Sort Of Support We Are All Ordiniray Students We Are In A Different Proffesion At The End Of the Day WE ARE PAYING MORE THEN ANY OTHER FORM OF TRAINING YOU NEED TO BECOME TO BE SOMETHING And Its Hell Lot Of Risk…
I Believe The Government MUST AND SHOULD Approve The Student Pilot For A Student Loan.. And Thats The Reason Why We Call It “STUDENT PILOT” … “STUDENT” Its Going To Make Many Peoples Once In Life Chance Come Ture, Its Going To Save Many PARENTS Who Are Putting A HUGE Amount Of Money It Will Give Them A Better Support Because Afterall When We Get That “FRZ ATPL” We’r Paying The Money Back Anyways.. Not Getting It For Ourselves.. So Student Loan Will SUPPORT Not Only The Pilots BUT Parents And ANYONE And EVERYONE Who Whats That Frz ATPL
I Am Ready To Support This ANY TIME!!!!!!! 100000000000000% I Am With You!
Connor Jackson on 31 Oct 2009 at 10:44 pm #
I support it!!!
Richard Sixone on 31 Oct 2009 at 11:42 pm #
We should have a level playing fields between pilot training and university education.
Therefore:
a) All state supported student finance should be withdrawn immediately for university education. No loans should be available for students. They will have to rely on parents or career development loans available from banks only at a 9.9% interest rate.
b) All university courses should have VAT charged at the current rate.
c) All exam papers should be charge at a cost of £66 per paper, and cost almost £1,000 total (current CAA cost of ATPL ground exams).
d) Finals exams will be charged at £762 per day (current CPL and IR Skills test costs).
e) It must cost £263 to get your degree certificate (current CPL Licence issue cost).
I predict that if the above policies were followed by the Government then aviation training will face a much brighter future !
Bradley Harris on 01 Nov 2009 at 12:57 pm #
I’m 13 years old and yesterday I attended a pilot training exhibition (flyer). Since the age of 7 I’ve wanted to become a pilot but having attended this exhibition due to my religion and my below middle class background, because of the extreme cost of the training I now realize its not going to happen, unless the government decide to recognize this training and help me and others alike with the cost. We are being discriminated against.
Chris Thomson on 01 Nov 2009 at 1:41 pm #
100% behind this , we need equality of oppourtunity for all students!
Phil Matyear on 01 Nov 2009 at 4:51 pm #
I support this campaign
Adam Heakin on 01 Nov 2009 at 5:06 pm #
I support this campaign 100%
Chris Moore on 01 Nov 2009 at 5:10 pm #
This is typical of this Goverment another stealth tax targetting individuals who they assume can afford this additional expense. I wholly support this campaign and wish Jane success at her forthcoming meeting at Downing Street.
George Shelldog on 01 Nov 2009 at 5:28 pm #
I support this campain, everyone at the exhibition was shocked when they herd the government dont support pilot training
Andrew on 01 Nov 2009 at 6:27 pm #
I support this 100% it is totaly unfair that piots do not get the same support as everyother student gets! It needs to change!
Harriet Harris on 01 Nov 2009 at 6:49 pm #
I support this campaign to give everyone a chance. I dont see why people should pay VAT for pilot training when all other training is supported by government. Thankyou!
Paul & Caroline Warneck on 01 Nov 2009 at 10:44 pm #
We attended the Flyer Exhibition at LHR yesterday with our son who wants a career as a pilot. This blatant discrimination against student pilots must stop. The government funds useless degree courses in just about any subject you can think of and yet no help is given to fund our future pilots in this country. Good luck with the campaign.
George on 01 Nov 2009 at 11:30 pm #
I personally share the same feeling,
It is such a huge financial hurdle that could possibly stop somebody from pursuing their dream career. Other occupations and courses recieve help and support from the government for numerous things… being a pilot is one of the most responsible careers out there, why shouldn’t every student pilot recieve support like doctors ect.
I wish you good luck with the campaign!
helen Holden on 02 Nov 2009 at 2:20 pm #
Support this campaign 100% . I work in the area of careers and can think of no other profession where this is support at all. My 16 year old son hopes to become a pilot- if he does a degree first the costs will be unbelievable
Alex Ludlam on 02 Nov 2009 at 9:44 pm #
I am 19 and trying my absolute best to become a pilot, but in this economic climate it is so hard to secure the amount of funds needed from banks to finance my training. And as most banks are still too scared to lend any money, let alone in the region of £100,000 to anyone with no collateral it is like trying to jump a 20 ft hurdle.
Even a small maintenance loan from the government would be so useful, and considering university students get the options of not only maintenance loans but government grants, student bursaries etc some of which dont even need to be paid back.
Thank you whoever set up this site it will hopefully be a big help.
Caroline Newman on 03 Nov 2009 at 10:20 am #
Please provide our ‘pilots in training’ with as much support and assistance as they need. Its a financially crippling profession to enter into – yet a responsibility that people under estimate.
Thousands of peoples lives are entrusted into the hands of our pilots and we want to see you help them reach their goals with some support !
With the current economic climate you are setting yourselves up for a shortfall of exceptional qualified pilots . This will lead to current resources being stretched – the consequences of which could be catastrophic.
Many thanks, Caroline Newman
Doreen & Cyril Clements on 03 Nov 2009 at 2:57 pm #
Having recently learned that there is no Government support for trainee Airline Pilots, this is absolutely ludicrous particularly having recently learned via the Press and TV/Radio News bulletins that a University Degree Course has been introduced for TEXTING!
Also those people who choose to join HM Forces, i.e. Royal Air Force or Fleet Air Arm to become Pilots receive their training FREE whilst drawing a salary at the same time. When their time in these Forces are over they can then taken on by Civil Airlines and go straight into Flying – ALL at the Taxpayers expense!!
There is obviously something sadly amiss with the Government’s strategy.
We support your cause 100%
Regards Doreen & Cyril Clements
Michael Tiernan on 03 Nov 2009 at 4:07 pm #
I support this campaign 100%! It seems ludicrous that trainee pilots cannot get any funding to train. After all this is a degree course and I can think of many “silly” subjects one can get a degree in. This is just another area where the Government needs to rethink.
I wish this campaign every success.
Regards,
Mick Tiernan
Peter Desforges on 03 Nov 2009 at 4:45 pm #
The treatment of trainee pilots from the U.K. is discrimatory compared to help provided to trainee pilots in some of the other European Union Countries , of which we are members, and our government’s treatment is unfair.
Airline Pilots have a huge responsibility for our safety when we travel and they must be given assistance by government whilst they are trained to the high standards required to ensure they fulfill the requirements of their profession.
All they ask for is a fair playingfield not dependant on one’s background to ensure we get the best and dedicated professional people into these highly skilled positions.
Gill Nelson on 03 Nov 2009 at 4:49 pm #
Being of the mother of two youngsters who went to Uni and left with huge debts at the end of their time, I fully support that this training should be subsidised. The majority of people making decisions now in government were fortunate to enjoy the free University/College education that we used to have. Unfortunatley todays young people can’t enjoy that facility and their choice is either to rack up debt which will take them years to pay off or hope that parents will help them out.
Let us hope that pressure is put to bear on this.
John Manley on 03 Nov 2009 at 9:46 pm #
Youg people should be encouraged to follow their dreams, regardless of their financial background. Give them wings to fly so they know that they’re alive.
Beverley Hole on 04 Nov 2009 at 3:57 pm #
There should be the opportunity for everyone from any background and any walk of life to be able to follow their personal ambitions. Having known somone who had to sell their house to fund the cost to train to be a pilot seemed to be very unfair
Lisa on 05 Nov 2009 at 12:25 am #
Totally outrageous that no government funding is available! Good luck with campaign!
Linda Parkes on 05 Nov 2009 at 4:08 pm #
I would like to add my support to this worthy campaign
George Beale on 05 Nov 2009 at 9:51 pm #
MPs get this done ASAP.
Peter Sadler on 06 Nov 2009 at 9:44 am #
Jane is to be congratulated for her determined afforts and I fully support the campaign.
brian derbyshire on 07 Nov 2009 at 12:55 pm #
the should be supported !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy Ford on 10 Nov 2009 at 8:42 pm #
with you all the way!!!
walt Koloska on 11 Nov 2009 at 11:38 am #
My Son Kevin is currently going through pilot traing at the moment and yes we are funding ourselves Which is not easy.
We agree 1000% with your campaign, the government must take notice of this and give kids from all back grouinds the chance to acheive their dreams.
I will be taking this up with our local MP and as you rightly say lets hit them from all sides.
Andy Field on 11 Nov 2009 at 12:17 pm #
Backing this campaign 100% all the way….
Siv Chandra on 11 Nov 2009 at 12:24 pm #
Supporting this campaign all the way!
Michael Childs on 12 Nov 2009 at 6:53 pm #
I totally agree with this campaign.
This industry is incredibly difficult to get into due to the amount of money that you need to invest in it. I am currently in the process of borrowing the money to do through Natwest’s Private Banking system. I almost have my Private Pilots Licence and although expensive, I don’t really begrudge paying the VAT on that licence because that is a luxury to most. It does annoy me when I have to pay X amount extra in VAT to the government to get qualified if i want to take this further into a career. The loan repayments I am looking at are going to be very tough to keep up with but just about possible. This is not a good position for anyone to be putting themselves in as the starting salaries as a low-hours pilot are not that high.
Angela on 15 Nov 2009 at 1:41 pm #
I agree wholeheartedly with this campaign.
My son graduated from Pilot Training College in April this year – little did we know how difficult it would be for him. It seems that most airlines require you to pay for a type rating (on top of everything else!) which is another £20,000. Plus you also have to keep your instrument rating current (another £1,500) each year. In the present climate the prospect of him finding a job is pretty bleak. He’s having to start paying off a loan in December so is currently working. I’ve told him that he is ‘at the bottom of the pile’ at the moment and that it’s likely to be some while before the airlines even consider him.
Timothy Harrison on 15 Nov 2009 at 8:43 pm #
I totally agree with this campaign and give it 100% of my backing
Ann Bowden on 15 Nov 2009 at 8:46 pm #
Of course I agree with this campaign who wouldn’t
David Bold on 15 Nov 2009 at 8:48 pm #
I agree with this campaign
Michelle Maskell on 18 Nov 2009 at 11:08 am #
100% behind this petition – students are students no matter what they are learning and support should be there for people who want to learn. Putting this sort of financial restrictiions on student pilots is making this learning very restrcitive.
I hope this brings about a change in attitudes – Good Luck
Gilles Irwin on 24 Nov 2009 at 5:12 pm #
This should definitely be supported. The government needs to take note and offer funding, support and help to ALL OUR STUDENTS and not just the select few. Good luck with the campaign and keep going!!!!!!!!!!!
James Rennie on 25 Nov 2009 at 9:17 pm #
I am training just now, part time as i am still at school, around half way through ppl. I dont know what to do, my family cannot afford training and the only thing i can see myself doing is flying for a career. People ask me what i will do once leaving school, i tell them i will gain my cpl, but realistically it is a lie that i cannot break away from. It really is doom and gloom – the only thing i really love to do and i cannot afford it.
grahame challender on 03 Dec 2009 at 12:44 am #
as the grandfather of oliver, i fully understand the struggle his parents had to give oliver the opportunity to further his chosen career, it is ludicrous that potential talent like oliver possesses is wasted through lack of funding for training. i hope the members will look at this anomaly and be as quick to amend the rules as they were to claim their “expense allowances” it is time to wake up to reality and help those who want to improve themselves.
Deborah Duan on 06 Dec 2009 at 4:19 pm #
All Students should be treated the same, regardless of what pathway they choose to take in their career.
Micheal Duan on 06 Dec 2009 at 4:21 pm #
Equal rights for all, thats what I say.
Georgia Duan on 06 Dec 2009 at 4:24 pm #
I hope this changes before I leave school and decide what I want to do. I may like to become a pilot also, although I will not be able to afford it if nothing changes.
Paige Duan on 06 Dec 2009 at 4:25 pm #
Behind this 100%
Alex McMillan on 08 Dec 2009 at 4:24 pm #
As a parent of a son who want to be a pilot, qualified teacher and someone who has spent over 20 years in the recruitment industry I can think of no other profession that has anything like this burden and prejudice. Chartered Accountants and indeed all the professions were only open for Upper Class families. Pilots is the one remaining example of an old Victorian privileged class system.
We have specific statutes making it illegal to recruit on the basis of race, marital status, religion, gender, sexual preference and even more recently age. I think we should add “how wealthy your family are. Think about it imagine going for a job as a Doctor, Accountant, Social Worker, Soldier and the first thing they did was to check how wealthy you were!
Alex McMillan BA MSc DIC Cert Ed
Nick on 04 Jan 2010 at 9:05 am #
This is plane (sic) daft! There should be funding for ANYBODY with ambition – I support this campaign totally, and with someone as ambitious as Jane behind the controls, it’s going to happen, believe me!
Tim G on 05 Jan 2010 at 9:10 pm #
As a parent of a prospective pilot I, as a teacher, did not have to fork out thousands of pounds for my training, so why should my son do so for his training? Student pilots should have the opportunity to achieve their ambition based on merit, for all our sakes, not the ability to pay. They will have left university already burdened by debt. It seems grossly unfair to have to take on further debt in excess of £60,000 to become a pilot, who, after all are contributing to the airline industry, worth over £18 billion to the UK economy and accounting for 25% by value of the UK’s international trade. Perhaps the government should provide greater incentives for airlines themselves to make a greater contribution to the cost of training especially during the present downturn.
Stephen Marron on 11 Jan 2010 at 6:51 pm #
I fully support this campaign 100%
As an airline pilot myself, I’ve been through the flight training system described. The cost of flight training, like many other professions mentioned above is high, but the level of support provided by our UK government is, UNLIKE other professions, non-existent.
As trainee pilots, we don’t earn money, we’re not able to work. We’re studying. When we qualify we hope to gain employment and pay our taxes like everybody else. Trainee pilots should be treated as students – and qualify for the support afforded by other students in their chosen career routes.
Tony B on 11 Jan 2010 at 8:22 pm #
I fully support this camapign.
Having coming out of the saussage machine that is Commercial flying training (£70,000 ish) and now working as an instructor, it would seem that the only way into any airline is to buy a type rating, again at exhorbitant expense.
Any reduction in initial training cost would be welcome to an aspiring pilot to afford the next step, nominally another £25,000. Total outlay circa £100,000!
There seems to be a very strong feeling that a big change is needed. Lets hope it happens for the sake of all, including the travelling public!
Best of luck.
David Hatchett on 18 Jan 2010 at 1:36 pm #
Just about to finish my integrated training. The job market is currently…disgusting! The lack of jobs is going to make the next stage of my life very tough untill getting that job, and even then, I will be in a very bad situation. Having to fly every hour available to try and recoup some of the exhorbitant outlays that my family have had to make! This assuming I dont have to buy a type rating!!!!!!!
You have my full support.
Markus Adcock on 20 Jan 2010 at 10:23 am #
Fully supported!
Trevor MacDonald Bennett on 21 Jan 2010 at 4:22 pm #
I thoroughly support this excellent initiative. The complete lack of Government suppoert for this important profession is disgraceful, and I really hope that this campaign bears fruit.
Pāvels T on 21 Jan 2010 at 4:27 pm #
Fully support this campaign, everybody should have a chance to fulfil their dreams!!
Phil Thomas on 22 Jan 2010 at 12:04 am #
Fully support this campaign. It’s about time people entering this industry are welcomed and recognised like anyone else entering any other career, instead of the antiquated system already in use.
Dave Duckworth on 26 Jan 2010 at 12:08 pm #
This is a breath of freash air to know we have an organisation willing to provide an avenue for our FRUSTRATIONS.
I support your cause 100%.
Good luck!
College Lecturer of Aviation Operations
Ex CFI Lancashire Aero Club
Reg Kay on 27 Jan 2010 at 3:16 am #
Not only should there be some sort of support for those training, such as is in place in Australia, but there should be some level of protection of students by law from poor service by their FTO.
In view of the level of investment required some sort of independent regulatory body should be in place to ensure students get what they pay for. I’m in the fianl stages of integrated training at what is claimed to be Britain’s and the worlds premier flight training organisation. Some of my experiences and that of my fellow trainees make that difficult to believe.
The training centre for this FTO in the USA is at times poor value for money. There is zero standardisation of training and assessment, and there are a few instructors who are a law onto themselves and whose treatment of students is nothing more than bullying. There have been many instances of students refusing to fly any further with instructors for this reason.
Additional training at additional cost has been given to students by some instructors needlessly on the thinest of reasons resulting from what one can be sure is no more than a personal dislike of the student. Equally flight reports, which I and others have personal experience of, have been severely negative and quite damaging to our records from instructors who have taken a personal dislike to their students.
To add further insult any complaints are completely dismissed with no right to appeal, the FTO covering for instructors no matter what the complaint. They don’t take any interest in your rights after they’ve taken your money.
Protection should be provided from an independent party to ensure the fairness, level of customer service and due care that should be expected after an investment of in excess of seventy thousand pounds.
Mr BS Crawford on 27 Jan 2010 at 10:32 am #
Good luck with your campaign. This has been a long time coming, and you deserve every encouragement, and support to achieve your aim. Please contact me if I can help in anyway. My only disappointment here is that there isn’t more official support from the airlines: it is they who benefit from our individual investment in ourselves.
Come on airlines: man up, put your best foot forward, and help to give student pilots a break. You take enough money off us for type ratings, and training later in the process.
Michael Fopp on 27 Jan 2010 at 11:48 am #
This situation has gone on for far too long. The only government support for flying training has, historically, been when this country has been threatened with war. Our economic and homeland security depends on us having a vibrant general aviation sector feeding our military and air transport fleets. In recent years the defence against terror and recession has involved carte blanche financial largesse by Government to Banks – but investment in aviation training receives nothing. Neither the aspirational pilot nor engineer receives any meaningful support. This not only puts our young people at a disadvantage, it also places our country in danger. Danger from ‘imported’ less skilled pilots trained cheaply elsewhere; danger from maintenance carried out to lower standards abroad; danger from maintenance carried out by unqualified mechanics (earning less than those in a garage) supervised by overworked licenced engineers grappling with an increasing burden of paperwork and form-filling; danger from young pilots qualified on paper, but lacking the real experience to hand-fly an aircraft because of the huge unsubsidised cost of general training and subsequent type ratings. We are storing up problems for the future and the Government is allowing us to walk blindfolded in to a situation where a shortage of properly qualified pilots will impact on our country’s reputation, economy and ability to compete in a global market.
Mark Sivyer on 27 Jan 2010 at 6:17 pm #
When is a student not a student?
Ahhh. When he is a student pilot.
We need more breaks for our student pilots.
Richard Lotinga on 28 Jan 2010 at 1:45 pm #
Good luck. Fully agree with you, a concerted campaign might have an affect, not on Gordon Brown, but maybe on the next PM (ie David Cameron)
Keith Dennison on 28 Jan 2010 at 6:47 pm #
I fully support this campaign. The government should certainly extend the same facilities to trainee commercial pilots as they would to any student. However, I also feel strongly that the airlines need to ’step up to the plate’ here and accept that training pilots is an overhead of their business; and, yes, I do realise that the cost will eventually be reflected in ticket prices.
Amy Paul on 29 Jan 2010 at 12:25 am #
It seems very foolish that the UK effectively discriminates against students wanting to pursue aviation – leaving the way clear for pilots who have trained in other EU countries. We live on an island, we need aviation and students seeking to enter the profession should have the same entitlements as other students.
Alan Docherty on 31 Jan 2010 at 9:26 pm #
Pilot training should be treated like a university course. You should be able to apply for student loans etc. There should also be grants made available just like there is for Student Doctors and Teachers. Airlines should go back to the days when they paid for the type rating but you were then contracted to them till the cost had been recouped. This is effectively what happens in the RAF. A pilot has to amiltise his training costs before he is allowed to leave.
David Aitken on 31 Jan 2010 at 11:43 pm #
I think pilot training should be treated like any other educational course. You should be able to apply for student loans etc. There should also be grants made available just like there are for Student Doctors and Teachers. Airlines should go back to the days when they paid for the type rating but you were then contracted to them till the cost had been recouped.
The inequality which exist today where Rich Kids are the only ones who can afford to fly needs to be addressed.
I will never have an issue paying back student loans but at present expecting someone to pay a minimum of £60,000 to train for a job where they may actually earn only £20,000 is crazy as well and this brings the airlines into the frame.
L Whittle on 02 Feb 2010 at 1:30 pm #
I totally support this campaign.
Since the half-baked NVQ scheme there has been little government oversight of, or assistance to, the trining of student pilots and it’s time this balance is redressed in my opinion.
I would also like to see protection for students undertaking training against dodgy outfits who serially pop up and go bust owing former students many thousands of pounds.
Mr BS Crawford on 02 Feb 2010 at 10:54 pm #
Currently industry are paying about £45k per man to put people through apprenticeships with about £15k subsidy from government: how come airlines can’t do the same?
nicky hinton on 03 Feb 2010 at 1:31 pm #
As the mother of three children who have benefited from grants/bursaries at university i am appalled that there is no help of this kind for trainee pilots. When you think of the huge responsibility they bear in keeping lives safe it really scares me that no financial help is available to ensure the best potential pilots can train. Well done, oliver, for completing your training, and good luck jane in this very worthwhile campaign!
Aled Matthias on 05 Feb 2010 at 2:09 pm #
Good luck, hopes this goes through before I start, or else it’s likely to be a long and difficult road, made more difficult by the fact untill you get your first pay check alot of things seems to be totally against you.
paul elliott on 05 Feb 2010 at 9:54 pm #
I m fully supportive of this campain, good luck, maybe the money from the MP s expenses could help towards the funding.
Tim Marlow on 09 Feb 2010 at 8:27 pm #
Hopefully this will lead to a change in government thinking!
Phill Small on 15 Feb 2010 at 5:58 pm #
It’s professional training so every help should be afforded to those who undertake it.
TAyyab on 19 Feb 2010 at 7:17 pm #
This is a matter that needs urgent attention we student pilots need to raise our voices otherwise nothing will be done.
Haroon Daud on 19 Feb 2010 at 9:41 pm #
I believe the government should definitely look into pilot training just like any other course and financing the students with any loans which are required for full completion of the course.At present the government airnt doing much,what they need to realise is that they are shattering peoples dreams who actually want to become pilots rather then the rich kids who choose not to but have done due to having money!
malek redouane on 23 Feb 2010 at 10:48 am #
It was my dream to become a pilot since I was very young, but now after knowing the costs and the struggle the pilots have to go through It seems like worst than a nightmere. good like to everyone who wants to become a pilot. I suppor the compaign 100%
Liam Metcalfe on 25 Feb 2010 at 6:41 pm #
Hey i Fully support this. Im only 15 and im already a student pilot myself but i have to work for those lessons but i come from a normal working class family an i could never be able to see myself as an airline pilot due to the funding but hopefully i shall get my dream job.
Shahid on 26 Feb 2010 at 6:44 pm #
As someone who has been to the banks to ask to borrow finance to fund my professional pilot training, and has received strange looks from the bank staff, I fully support this cause. The government needs to wake up and change this unfair situation.
Off course, pilot training is risky, but if the banks can readily pour money into extremely high risk ‘toxic’ investments that have almost resulted in global economic meltdown, and splurge on bonuses, why can they not invest in someone’s future?
K Barnard on 27 Feb 2010 at 9:21 pm #
Of course this is a worthy cause and I totally agree with this campaign.
Students are students, whatever their chosen profession.
They should have equal opportunities and should not miss out or have to give up just because of their or their family’s financial position.
Nick Wood on 01 Mar 2010 at 1:17 pm #
Good luck in your campaign to remove this massive barrier to commercial pilot training.
Having 2 children of university age whose ambitions are to fly for the airlines, I don’t know how they will be able to realise their ambition other than the lengthy & demanding modular route.
Tim Moore on 03 Mar 2010 at 8:09 pm #
You wouldn’t think that a Labour government would allow a persons financial situation to dictate success in a professional or academic field. Doesn’t this go against their core policies, so much for abolishing the class systerm and equal opportunities to all.
I’ve been trying to become a pilot now for 2 years. The main thing holding me back is money. I’ve been working 80-90 hours a week on the roads only going home for a day and a half every 3 to 4 weeks to save the money. The problem is I’m finding it hard to find the time to prepare for the Interviews and assessments. This puts me at another disadvantage. It shouldn’t be this hard. The more noise made about this subject the better you have my full support!!
David Griffiths on 04 Mar 2010 at 1:56 pm #
As with many others, funding has been the major issue. Fortunately I’m starting full time training again in April having found funding (not easy I can tell you). Having the tax back at the very least would be a major saving and not cripple me financially for quite as many years post training!
FULL SUPPORT!
Colin Moss on 08 Mar 2010 at 12:53 am #
Student pilots should have the same benefits, that any other student has.
Femi Sangowawa on 09 Mar 2010 at 1:11 pm #
I’m already halfway through my training so any changes will be too late for me, but I’m still 100% behind this campaign.
It’s a shame that even high-street banks are reluctant to give loans, let alone the Government being willing to give any form of support for training pilots. Personally, I believe that in the UK, anything involving aviation is as for the high-class, so it’s more a case of Daddy’s money as opposed to being a good pilot. Good potential pilots shouldn’t always be restricted from achieving their potential simply because they come from a lower economic background or can’t afford.
I’m completely supportive of this campaign